misconduct & bad sporting behaviour,how should clubs deal wi

[paul]

See this (http://www.hecl.co.uk/wrap.php?file=wrapped/complaints.html&opt=X&idx=X)

The league take a very dim veiw of any conduct that breaches the "Spirit of the Game"

[paul]

What has happened in the past with teams that have been disciplined? What sanctions have been taken? Having only been in the league for 3 seasons, i haven't seen or heard any action being taken against any team, i may have missed something or maybe it's all kept "in house"? There have been incidents in the past that have been dealt with swiftly. The decisions have not been kept "in house" but neither are they generally broadcast. The most recent being Henham exclusion from the league last year.

In general terms the league does not act unless an official complaint has been received. There is already one such complaint this year. The incident referred to by slider is likely to be dealt by the league regardless of the need for an official complaint. It would be unfair to make any comment here until the committee has reached a decision.

For those that need to clarify who is responsible for behavior on the field of play, the Laws of Cricket are available on the site for download. The current revision of the laws begins with a preamble and description of the "Spirit of the Game" I would suggest that everyone read it if they haven't already. It is quite clear on the standard of behavior that is expected.

[paul]

I would assure everyone that the league committee will act swiftly with regard to this and any incident. I will pass on comments made here and post the response. I don't believe that publishing the findings of the committee in such cases would be a problem. As I said before. I think it would be inappropriate to comment here before clubs and individuals have had an opportunity to put a case forward. After that there would also be the right to appeal the decision.

As to the general standard of sportsmanship in the league I am inclined to agree that it is higher in our league than any other I have ever played in. Lets keep it that way. The very fact that the league is normally played in such good spirit prompted the new Nigel Trotter Fair Play Award this year. As yet no nominations have been made. Maybe if clubs would respond in a positive way no matter how small it would help to highlight the high degree of sportsmanship in our league.

[paul]

Thanks Andrew for echoing my sentiment entirely. As yet no club or individual has been found guilty of anything.

The issue of overseas players was debated here, by the committee at the rules meeting and also at the AGM. Every club was sent a survey to forward their standpoint and the resulting decision was posted in the minutes. To claim it was baseless does not really reflect the nature of the debate nor that the outcome supported that assertion.

No one will be named and shamed. However any eventual sanctions will not be kept secret. The decision made by the Disciplinary committee and the League committee will be available for all to see unless there are strong reasons not to publish them. Incidents involving minors or criminal action would constitute such a decision.

The Henham decision was made on the basis that they failed to comply by the league rules as such it has to be considered as a disciplinary matter. Even if no complaint were received.

The Committee meet tonight and until they have had time to discus these issues this thread is locked. Sorry guys its not because we don't want debate here, we do, however there needs to a degree of concrete evidence to make the debate a fair one. The thread will open once that is achieved.

[paul]

The disciplinary committee met this evening 23rd May to consider a complaint resulting from a match played earlier in the season. The ruling from that meeting will be published here once the clubs involved have been advised in writing of the outcome.

The Committee were also made aware of another complaint made resulting from a match played on the 21st May.

The nature of the complaint is such that the committee decided to take immediate action and have suspended one player from taking part in any league and cup matches from todays date pending further investigation. The committee are to meet again within the next two weeks to hear the case against the individual and the club.

In the light of the serious nature of the allegations I would ask that the matter be discussed here with discretion. Any posts or comments posted on the website that may compromise the nature of the investigation will be removed.

[paul]

Oh, and the thread is now unlocked.

[paul]

In this instance the clubs who provide the opposition for the next few games will be notified. The league also rely on the integrity of the club receiving the ban. If they did knowingly field a banned player the game would be forfeit with other possible sanctions.

[paul]

Guy's

I repeat. This matter was debated to exhaustion and conclusion last year. The league acted positively giving every club a say in how the issue should be handled. A ruling was made at the AGM. Until such time as a Club or individual raises something new to the debate I think we should shake on it and put the matter to bed.

This thread is getting off topic.

If you wish to debate the finer points of last years debate such as who said what and why please take it to email or resurrect last years thread.

Thanks

On topic -

Andrew, I fail to see how the original post could be considered libelous. Even if it were, surely circumstance would be considered. However, I'm sure we are well off the potential mark for Libel here. Until now no club or individual had been mentioned by name. At worst, inference was all that so far existed on the website. Hardly libelous. Lets keep it that way.

[andrewshields]

Aha, the first major talking point of the season!

First, we need to be careful about responding to what is, after all, only one person's opinion. Users may remember last season how the issue of 'professional' overseas players became blown out of all proportion following one inflammatory post and proved eventually to be baseless.

Jason's suggestion is sound, but the league disciplinary committee would first need to ascertain the validity of a complaint before embarking on any sanctions. All we've read here is one side of the story. It's easy enough to work out the identity of the club being accused: do they have a response?

I agree that the standards of fair play and good humour in this league are extremely high. Anyone who follows the messageboard debates on the Essex County Cricket Club website will know that the Shepherd Neame Essex League, for example, seems to be contested solely by cricketers who are in it for the aggro.

Those high standards are worth preserving, and perhaps the best way to do this is to operate on a 'name and shame' basis allied to a set of possible sanctions. This will put the onus of responsibility on clubs themselves to maintain discipline.

Finally, I thought Henham were expelled from the league for failing to fulfil fixtures? The earlier post made it sounds like it was for disciplinary mattters.

[andrewshields]

I'd like to think that no club in the league would stoop so low as to field a banned player under another name.

If they did and were found out, the punishment should be simple: immediate expulsion from the league and reported to their respective District and County Boards.

[andrewshields]

Hello Thomas

Well, you did title your post 'Flying players in for the summer only'! Then you wrote: 'We just lost to a team which seems to have flown in three South Africans just for the cricket season... Apparently they will go home for the winter, then come back next year.'

If that wasn't inflammatory enough, the first respondent then added: 'The club I think you are refering to has found them jobs and the word is that one of them even played Orange Free State cricket which I think is a little bit higher level than village cricket.'

I agree that the ensuing debate was extremely valuable, though I stand by my statement that the original accusation was not wholly correct. Interestingly, South Loughton have entered the Shepherd Neame Essex League Twenty20 competition and we're having to go through that league's overseas player registration with our South Africans - even though they have all lived here for at least two years or have English parents and would be eligible to play in that league if they wished.

As a general point, and Slider maybe needs to recognise this in his anger following what must now euphemistically be called 'the Birchanger incident', that words posted on a website may seem ephemeral and informal but carry the same legal weight as anything published in more permanent media. We all need to pause before posting and think through the potential consequences of what we write. In libel cases, riders like 'apparently' and 'word is' are no mitigation (as a journalist, I know my media law!).

[andrewshields]

No, of course it wasn't libelllous. But we all need to exercise a little caution.

[pauly462]

At High Beach, we were some what reluctent to enter into league cricket because of the reputation, ( bad behaviour non sportsmanship, win at all cost attitude),of other leagues we had heard about, and were more famiular with. However? most of the clubs, we had traditionaly played, had started to enter into leagues ,this league particularly, and in a quest to get better and more complete fixtures we entered into The Herts and Essex,What we have found in this league, and we can only comment on clubs we have played, over the last 3 or so years, is very much to the credit of the clubs with in it and the officials running the league, as ever our league is growing and evolving, surely a healthly sign?, maybe these incidents should become public knowledge as and when they are delt with, ( how many are we speaking of here 1- 10- 20 ? ) very few i would guess?, if this is only to keep people informed and aware of what's going on?,all open and above board?,Our own attitude at High Beach ( and it has happened ) would also be to have very firm words/ actions with the offending person, or persons if this persistited ? players can be dropped very simply, so action at club level is very important as well as league level ,we all know in what spirit our games should be played in.
Paul Smith ( Chairman ) HBCC

[pauly462]

Unfortulently, ringers, banned players, Guests ? uumm! and alike have been playing in football leagues saturdays and sundays for years, could be a difficult thing to enforce, thank goodness cricket has always had a bit more integrity.

[bearski]

What has happened in the past with teams that have been disciplined? What sanctions have been taken? Having only been in the league for 3 seasons, i haven't seen or heard any action being taken against any team, i may have missed something or maybe it's all kept "in house"? I guess it's up to the umpires to step in, but it is difficult if they are players in the game as they will be probably just be ignored. I know this will stir up the old neutral umpires debate, but having struggled to field a team for our first 3 games, it is impossible to get anyone to umpire!!

[thomaswp]

. Users may remember last season how the issue of 'professional' overseas players became blown out of all proportion following one inflammatory post and proved eventually to be baseless.

I made that post and it was not inflammatory at all! It was the people who followed up that got excited. I don't think at any time that it got out of control. It seemed to open up some feelings that had been kept under wraps by others.

I am pleased to see that White Roding continue to do well and wish them all the best in division 1. Hopefully we'll be there too bext year to resume the battle. I just hope that Langley sort themselves out. I played there when I was a junior and would not like to pass them on the way up (he said optimistically). I want to field on the road again.

edited by: thomaswp, May 27, 2005 - 03:33 PM

[djbbb]

Having in played in most of the divisions in the league (for 1s and 2s) it does seem that the higher you get the more situations arise. I for 1 would happily pay extra money on a sat if this means neutral umpires are available as i believe this would cut out a large proportion of the situations that arise.
It would also be intresting to know how many of us actually know and understand most of the laws of cricket? I have all played the game for several years and its only recently that im getting more into learning the laws (possibly cos im a better umpire than player lol!!!) but as paul quoted i only recently read the updated version of the laws and think every person who plays in this league should.
Just out of intrest how would the league enforce a ban on somebody? We dont put team sheets in and im sure if a club really wanted to the player could play under an assumed name and who would be any the wiser? Im not saying anyone would do this but it could happen.

[slider]

i witnessed this in a game this wkend(21 may) between my club & the opposition.
its the first time ive seen it as bad, sleding swearing throwing balls back at the batsmen.

[JasonGladwin]

I believe that if there are clear guidlines to what sanctions a club faces when things go wrong then will be better all round and encorages self regulation

in another league i have played in there was a policy that went something like this

1 complaint during the season recieved and the club is asked investigate and report back with action that is to be taken

2 compliants during the season recieved league to investigate and report back to both clubs with a final warning

3 complaints recd during the season heavy points reduction for team concerned and possible expulsion of team/player involved in the incident.

This enabled the offending club to "put its house in order" but didnt let things go to far to let players/clubs abuse the league system

just an idea

Jason

[JasonGladwin]

while agreeing with most of the posts on this subject, and it is great that we can all contibute on what is an important subject, i have playe in the leagues with neutral umpires.

While this takes away the potential situation of a home umpire being called a "cheat", all the neutral umpire have to have some sort of experience.

This system was trialed in the morrant league a few years ago. Although a couple of the umpires were of a good standard and had played the game for years, quite a few had taken a course over a few hours on sunday and they were only there to pick up there £20 for the day.

As a result both teams were getting some shocking decisions !! i remember one game we played and one umpire gave 8 lbws throught the course of the game !!!

There are positives and negatives for both but i believe that over the course of a year it evens it self out if you get a bad decision one week you may get lucky the next week. This proberbly explians the reluctance to walk of many batsmen.