1st or 2nd eleven??

[paul]

Originaly submitted as a news Item. This is better suited to the Forum


Posted By - Jonesy-Westmill

1st or 2nd eleven??

After a chat with one of the league committee members yesterday, I was shocked and disappointed at the fact that some clubs, who have more than one league team, are using 1st team players in their 2nd team to avoid relegation. I'm not naive enough to believe that this has never happened before with the odd player, here and there, however, using several 1st teamers for the last few weeks of the season is, to be blunt, cheating and should be stopped immediately. This is not at all in keeping with the spirit of the game and if those teams who do this (you and many others know who you are) avoid relegation, you should hold your heads in shame whenever you walk onto a cricket field.

[paul]

Yeah and if he could get a ton in 6 overs in every game for Westmill you'd be playing us more often. 8-) See you when he leaves St Margaretsbury !st XI and playes all his cricket for Westmill and you dive back up the league.

The point Muttley is making really is why should you be moaning now when you were doing it yourselves not more than a month ago?? As for being sore losers well I didn't see it posted on the forum here.

Maybe you should register a complaint -seriously if you feel you've been cheated have your say with the committee. As it happens I am in agreement with you so you have my support and I would imagine quite a few others here.

[paul]

Unfortunately Paul, I spoke to a committee member about it, off the record for his advice. His reply was as follows:

The discussion surrounding this last year was in reference to a club that cancelled a 1st XI fixture and put them out to play a 2nd XI fixture, resulting in the addition of rule 11b. The response you got from the committee member off the record is correct, there is no law to stop a club from playing their members in any side they choose. To implement such a rule is fraught with administrative nightmares. Thats not to say the problem dosen't need to be addressed.

However, if as you say you have been "cheated" you should place a complaint with the committee stating on what grounds the cheating has taken place. Acusations of cheating are taken very seriously.

A more constructive approach which will not help you in the short term I agree would be to place suggestion for the rules to be changed in some way. Exactly what shold be added or ammended is still I feel very hard to pin down. To a large degree the league rely on the integrity of clubs to police themselves when faced with such decisions. Sadly as you suggest this might not always be the case.

[muttley]

So, let me get this right?? Westmill have never fielded an in-eligible player to gain an advantage??

Ohh I can edit posts after the evnt as well instead of quoting in a new post.

edited by: muttley, Aug 23, 2005 - 10:29 AM

[muttley]

Westmill have been punished this season for the same reason as is sighted here and were removed from a cup competition. Pots and kettles spring to mind.

[muttley]

Clearly, Muttley, you have missed the point. Let me explain. . . I am talking about league cricket (18 matches in our case) where points matter. You are talking about a knockout cup competition, the Herts Village Trophy.

Westmill beat Thorley fair and square. Westmill the team, got you all out, not one man, who incidentally has played in every game in that cup for 3 years without any problems at all and took no wickets in our game. You're sore because you got beaten, I understand that. Correct me if I'm wrong but Thorley are in division 2, are they not? Westmill are in Division 5 and beat you. I know it's an embarrassment, but you'll get over it eventually. Don't think it matters a jot if you are out to save yourselves from relegation or "pot hunting" after getting back in the draw of a cup competion. Cheating is cheating. Accusing a club of cheating is strong stuff. If you can back it up I wish you all the best.

As for getting over it well We just might one day.

No real offence was meant by my post and sorry if it sounded that way. I wish you and your club all the best whatever the outcome.

[muttley]

To be fair one day Thorley are in the quarters the next they are not, then they are then they are not again. Then they have one day to find a team!!! In fairness to all clubs the whole of that competition has become a bit of a farce in recent years.

I still don't see that cheating in one competition is worse than cheating in another!!! Points or pots it's still cheating. If one can accuse someone of cheating and expect ones own digressions to be ignored then its chaos all round.

I am still opposed to both practices discussed here so in the end you have my full support. I can appreciate how annoying it can be to have your season snuffed out by a dubious selection procedure of the oppositions making. Nuff said and good luck where ever you end up next year.

[muttley]

No, but I'll take my hat off to yer ;-)

[Sammy]

some clubs, who have more than one league team, are using 1st team players in their 2nd team to avoid relegation. <<

Lot talk in the "Passive" here. Can someone help me?

Div 5 Results this weekend

Bircho IIs 41 a/o lost
Stansted II 92 a/o lost
Newport II 166 a/o lost
Stansted Hall II (2nd from bottom) 205-5 Won (now 3 points behind Westmill)

What's being said here?

[bearski]

Define an ineligible player, the rules only state that he can't be playing regularly at a "significantly higher standard of cricket", what is that "higher standard"? Saracens Div 1,2,3,4? We had a guy who played for us as a favour, who played a couple of games for Old Whitgiftians in the Surrey league(i think), he played one game and then went on to play for Woodford Wells first XI. He didn't play regularly for OW, so does he class as a "ringer", as it turned out he didn't need to bat!!!!! I agree with Inskip, on occasion it can happen, Bishops Stortford III's would have people who were out of form coming down from the II's to play which isn't a problem, but if you are just doing it to keep your second eleven up, then surely it's wrong. If the second eleven aren't good enough to stay up(or go up) perhaps it would be better for them to go down or stay where they are. It only takes a few players leaving or injuries or unavailabilities to send a team down anyway(just ask us and Aythorpe Roding II's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

[djbbb]

im just glad ours 2s dont need to win to stay up!!! :-D

But i can fully understand why teams would do it tho is it the sensible option? Surely if your 2s are losing alot of their games then they are in the wrong division, our 2s are made up mainly of older guys and juniors and are probably at their right level (bottom half div4) but with the league getting stronger then maybe they are too high. I still believe the league hasnt evened its self out yet but will do so over the next 3/4 seasons. What is good to see that most of the divisions are competetive.

The other problem with this is enforcing the rule, it would require every player to be registered, team sheets filled in and send it to the league. Its surely up to the clubs to be sensible but fair

[Andy]

no disrespect jonesy but relegation may do you a few favours, i hear you have lost a couple of key players and this will give you the oppurtunity to rebuild?

[dij]

Put your spoon away Sammy

[Jonesy-Westmill]

Clearly, Muttley, you have missed the point. Let me explain. . . I am talking about league cricket (18 matches in our case) where points matter. You are talking about a knockout cup competition, the Herts Village Trophy.

Westmill beat Thorley fair and square. Westmill the team, got you all out, not one man, who incidentally has played in every game in that cup for 3 years without any problems at all and took no wickets in our game. You're sore because you got beaten, I understand that. Correct me if I'm wrong but Thorley are in division 2, are they not? Westmill are in Division 5 and beat you. I know it's an embarrassment, but you'll get over it eventually. :-D

edited by: Jonesy-Westmill, Aug 23, 2005 - 09:18 AM

[Jonesy-Westmill]

Unfortunately Paul, I spoke to a committee member about it, off the record for his advice. His reply was as follows:

"I know it's going on, but we don't have anything in the rules, currently, to stop it. But we will be looking at the problem after the season has finished"

By which time, if we are relegated, due to others unfair play, it will be too late!

[inskip]

agreed,

Maybe would be ok if the seconds were struggling and the 1st's ddnt have a game, but not soley to boost points towards the end of the season.

[inskip]

ditto on what bearski said :lol:

[inskip]

but now they have their star bowler :roll:
(ME)

[inskip]

To be fair Westmill wasnt given alot of time to organise 11 players on a weekday with only 2 days notice.

But that isnt wats on question here.
What Jonesy is talking about is the within the league where points are the prizes.

[inskip]

now now, theres no need to be taking our shirts off about this is there ;)